Proptech panel: design technology for surveyors and architects

11 minutes ago

31 min read

Accurate site information can change what architects and developers are able to design. In this 2022 Proptech Association Australia panel, moderator Jennifer Harrison explored how 3D laser scanning, digital twins and automated feasibility tools were changing surveying and architecture.

Simon Cookes of LARKI, Mohsen Kalantari of Faramoon and Anycie Barakat of Archistar explained their approaches to capturing existing conditions, creating indoor models and testing development options. The discussion covered practical uses for point clouds and LiDAR, alongside the time and cost implications for property projects.

On the panel:

Jennifer Harrison, Vice President, Proptech Association Australia (moderator)
Simon Cookes, Founder and CEO, LARKI
Mohsen Kalantari, Co-founder, Faramoon
Anycie Barakat, Head of Generative Design, Archistar

The conversation covered:

(00:05) Jennifer Harrison opens the Proptech Association Australia monthly Learn at Lunch webinar focused on design technology.
(02:49) Simon Cookes introduces LARKI from the Sydney startup hub at Stone&Chalk.
(03:03) Mohsen Kalantari joins from Sydney, representing Faramoon with headquarters at Melbourne Connect.
(03:30) Anycie Barakat introduces Archistar's generative design work from Sydney.
(03:54) Simon gives the LARKI elevator pitch, explaining how 3D laser scans and LiDAR data replace traditional 2D surveys.
(06:57) Explaining 3D point clouds as the output files from laser scanners that let architects measure anything from a desktop.
(11:37) Simon shares market feedback, noting top-tier clients like JLL, Deakin University, and 22 towers for the Victorian State Government.
(12:45) Exploring ancillary use cases, from 5G rollouts to helping transport engineers verify clearance for oversized trucks.
(15:45) Mohsen pitches Faramoon, explaining how they automate indoor digital twin creation for architecture and construction.
(18:14) Discussing the academic roots of Faramoon at the University of Melbourne and automating point cloud data extraction.
(20:39) Mohsen outlines target groups, noting strong adoption among surveying firms, innovative architects, and drafting houses.
(23:08) A consortium project using Faramoon's models for school safety and emergency evacuation routing scenarios.
(25:10) Anycie gives the Archistar pitch on instantly assessing development sites, checking planning controls, and running automated feasibilities.
(29:57) Anycie discusses target customers like CBRE and Mirvac, noting average customer savings of thirty thousand dollars per project.
(32:57) Exploring Archistar's work with government bodies like the Victorian state government to streamline planning approvals.
(34:52) Simon explains that the name LARKI stands for Land surveying, Architecture, Real estate knowledge on the internet.
(37:47) Mohsen shares that Faramoon is the Persian word for dimension.
(38:39) Anycie explains Archistar originated from Architect Star Rating before expanding into a broader digital platform.

In their words:

“Previously, like a 2D feature survey, you wouldn't be able to do the job with that level of information because you only can squeeze about 100 site data points on a piece of paper.” – Simon Cookes

“We focus on indoor modelling, creating digital twins for indoors of the building. For a, say, residential building, one storey, two storey or even a four storey building, you can use a handheld laser scanner and scan the building in an hour or so.” – Mohsen Kalantari

“Rather than spending months looking for a site or looking through, say, 60 odd sites, we can process thousands of sites in a few minutes or even seconds and help you really shrink down that process.” – Anycie Barakat

About the panel:

Simon Cookes is the founder and CEO of LARKI, an architect with a background in traditional site measurement challenges. Mohsen Kalantari is a co-founder of Faramoon and an academic at the University of Melbourne specialising in automated spatial information extraction. Anycie Barakat is the head of generative design at Archistar, driving cloud-based platforms that help developers assess sites and check planning compliance.

Transcript:

This is an automated transcript of the panel, lightly edited for readability. Please excuse any errors.

Jennifer Harrison: Hello, and welcome to this month's The proptech Panel. The proptech Panel is a monthly Learn at Lunch webinar brought to you by the Proptech Association Australia. It's the fourth Tuesday of every month. We do it live at 12:00 PM, and we always theme it to explore one particular aspect of property technology in more depth, and today we're talking about design technology. I'd like to thank Stone&Chalk for being a foundation supporter of the Proptech Association Australia, and also for being our event partner today. If you don't know Stone&Chalk, it's an accelerator with facilities in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide, and some 20 or more proptechs call Stone&Chalk home. Very excitingly, Stone&Chalk has been chosen by the New South Wales State Government to manage the new scale-up hub down at Tech Central. That will be opening in July. There is some still... There is still some space available if you're interested. Uh, please find out more on the Stone&Chalk website, or you can reach out to Marie-Anne Lampotang, who's the General Manager of Stone&Chalk in Sydney, and she's also the treasurer of the Proptech Association. I'd also like to acknowledge that I'm sitting on country traditionally owned by the Wallumettal people of the Dharug Nation, and I'd like to pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. On behalf of the Proptech Association, I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of country and First Nations people all across Australia, and acknowledge their connections to land, sea and community. Today we're talking about design technology. We're talking about the really cool tech tools that can help you understand the potential of a piece of land. What can you build there? The first question is: what is already there? What's the lie of the land, and what's the existing condition of any structures? Your next question is: what is it actually possible and, moreover, what is it actually feasible to build? What could you actually get planning permission for? What could you actually get financing for? And lastly, and possibly even more importantly, the design technology tools we're gonna learn about today are the foundations for 3D digital twins and technological tools that can help you project manage your construction and become a central hub for you to manage your asset going forward. We're gonna encounter probably quite a few acronyms today, which the panel will help us demystify, so let's meet the guests. My first guest today is Simon Cookes, who is the founder and CEO of LARKI. Welcome to the panel, Simon. How are you today?

Simon Cookes: Great. Thanks, Jennifer. Really great to be here. Thanks very much.

Jennifer Harrison: Thank you for joining us, and where are you joining us from?

Simon Cookes: The Sydney, uh, startup hub at the moment, so just where you guys at Stone&Chalk.

Jennifer Harrison: Perfect, thank you. My second guest today is Mohsen Kalantari, who is a co-founder of Faramoon. Mohsen, welcome to the paril- panel. How are you today?

Mohsen Kalantari: Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you for having me. I'm good, thank you.

Jennifer Harrison: And where are you joining us from?

Mohsen Kalantari: I'm joining today from Sydney, but our office is in Melbourne, head office is in Melbourne. The Melbourne Connect building in the University of Melbourne.

Jennifer Harrison: And my third guest today is Anycie Barakat, who is head of generative design at Archistar. Anycie, welcome to the panel. How are you?

Anycie Barakat: Hi, Jennifer. Thanks for having us. I'm good, thank you. I'm good.

Jennifer Harrison: And where are you joining us from?

Anycie Barakat: We're from Sydney today.

Jennifer Harrison: Perfect. Okay, Simon, let's start with you. Can you please explain in a nutshell, tell us about LARKI. Give us your elevator pitch.

Simon Cookes: Laser scans, uh, of neighbourhoods, streets, buildings. So this is LiDAR, one of those first acronyms off the bat. So it's, yeah, data basically of your site that we provide through an online platform. So it's with a 3D viewer, so it's a SaaS, another acronym there. So software as a service component, and it's really for property developers and architects that need to do site measurements and do them potentially remotely and also affordably and, and fast. Compared to a, a traditional 2D land survey, we provide a 3D survey, but not only being 3D, it's, it's much better resolution, so up to 300,000 times better resolution, eight times better value and 700, uh, times faster. So it's really saving architects and property developers weeks and many thousands of dollars off, off their, you know, overall project costs.

Jennifer Harrison: Okay. So let's understand a little bit more about the problem you're solving for. What, what are some of the challenges that architects and property developers and other people might face if they were working from a 2D drawing and photos, for example, and not availing themselves of the 3D technology?

Simon Cookes: Yeah, I'll give you an example of a, a property developer. So they're, uh, primarily interested in return on investment and to, to get that return on investment, they really need to understand every s- cubic centimeter of their site so that they can f- work out what size of development is actually gonna fit on their site. And to do this they'll get architects to help them to, to do massing studies or, or... a- and then that will feed into a, a feasibility study for them. But really they need to do it affordably because what they can get from the sales at the end of the development minus their costs, of which surveying and c- collecting that information is one of those costs, that equals their profit or return. So they wanna do things af- affordably, but they also wanna do things fast because if they're ma- ha- making a decision on buying a property, they have to make that decision really quickly. Or even throughout the course of the development, they also need to do things fast because the longer they do something, the more holding costs there is, which eats into their, their profit margin. It's about getting detailed site information really affordably and fast, but they can't. So currently they'll have to send out a land surveyor and that might, for even for a really small property, that kind of starts from around $2,000. It might take them a minimum of two weeks, but then, uh, they still don't have enough information, so the architect will have to go out on site and do measurements. I'm an architect myself, and I've been in situations where I've, you know, had to precariously cli- climb a, a fence or hang off the side of a building to take a dimension, and even during COVID physically couldn't get to site to do those dimensions. So that's a real kind of problem that we're, we're trying to address with LARKI.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. Fantastic. And can you tell us some more about what is a 3D point cloud? What... And what can you do with a 3D point cloud that you just can't do with, for example, a photo? Because I think some people who may not be familiar with them might think, well, it's just a picture, for example.

Simon Cookes: Yeah. A 3D point cloud is effectively the output file from a 3D laser scanner. Architects, property developers, we're all working in this 3D world that is reality, and so it makes sense that 98% of architects use 3D design tools, be it Archicad, one of those kind of sophisticated design tools. And so it makes sense that they get that, that information in 3D. So yeah, so that's what a, a point cloud is. But what we do uniquely is we get point cloud files that have been captured from laser scanners that are attached to planes, from cars driving past, drones and, and mounted on tripods. So we're aggregating all these different data from various suppliers, and such that we can provide it in that really, um, high resolution, a really, uh, affordable and, and fast way. But then also providing it in this, you know, web viewer and, and platform so that our customers can order it, pay for it, track, you know, if we've got to send out a team, to know when the data's gonna be available and download it and view it all, all online. So you... It's a completely kind of web-based experience now.

Jennifer Harrison: So does that mean you don't actually even need to go to visit the site?

Simon Cookes: Yeah, exactly. We've got a customer who is an architect in, uh, Chile in, in South America, and the property that they're designing for is in Sydney. The client met this architect when they were still in Sydney. COVID happened, they went back to Chile, but they continued. They, they were still able to do that job because they could use our data from wherever they were in the world, 'cause everyone's got internet connection these days.

Jennifer Harrison: That's a great... That's a great example of how architects potentially can actually expand their business.

Simon Cookes: Oh, yeah. It's the kind of gig economy is, is happening the world over and, uh, your physical location is no impediment to doing work anymore, particularly when you're using this really high resolution data. Because previously, like a, a 2D feature survey, you wouldn't be able to do the job with that level of information because it's, you only can squeeze about 100 site data points on a piece of paper. And then because it's a drawing, like the surveyor's, uh, essentially drawing dot to dot and the architect needs to kind of, or, or, or any kind of stakeholder, whether it be planner, building owner, objector, like all of the engineer, um, they all need to interpret that information and it's quite hard to interpret. Um, whereas a point cloud is, is th- there's so many dots, millions and millions of them that when you look at it, it looks like a grainy photograph. So it's how you experience the world anyway. So it, um, you know, a picture tells a thousand words. In our case, the picture tells 30 million words. But it's... And it's all measurable. To, so to your question earlier about the, the photo, you can't measure photos. You can... Architects would do things like count bricks. It'd be about one, two, three, four, what, you know, times by 89 equals roughly whatever height. But it's a complete waste of time to do that for every single, you know, window sill or parapet height or whatever. Whereas now you can jump in on the LARKI platform, um, order some data, it arrives in your platform in an hour, and then you can be doing whatever dimensions you want, whether it be the sag of a power line, a, an Australian height datum, AHD height of a leaf on a tree if you want. Like, it's really detailed.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, like I mentioned, you're just not gonna get the best out of 3D design tools if the data you're ingesting isn't 3D.

Simon Cookes: Yeah. Quality in, poor quality out. So yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: So tell us more about LARKI and, um, your client base and how you go to market. Do you have an ideal customer, and what's your approach to going to market?

Simon Cookes: Yeah. We've been doing the, the 3D scanning ourselves. We've got hundreds of thousands of dollars of worth of equipment and dr- uh, tripod-based drones and... So tripod-based laser scanners and drone-based, uh, scanning equipment and staff in Melbourne and Sydney. So we've been capturing and converting this data into, like building information modelling, BIM files for customers for over five years now. And during that time, we've really, um, learned what the kind of pain points are and also grown our customer base. So now we've, we've built the platform. We raised some funds last year and we've, uh, used that to build this platform that enables, um, our customers to get and manage that and pay for and share that and collaborate with that information more readily. And so we're converting those kind of customers into SaaS subscribers now. But yeah, we also do, you know, a lot on Instagram and LinkedIn and other content marketing referrals, et cetera, to, to grow the, the top of funnel.

Jennifer Harrison: What kind of positive feedback are you getting from the market? And is there any particular testimony or feedback you've received that made you particularly-

Simon Cookes: We've got some testimonials that have words like wow and woohaa, W-O-O-H-A-A exclamation mark, which is pretty cool. So yeah, a lot of people saying, "Oh, game changer," and, "Where were you five years ago when I got pulled into litigation because of site context information?" and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, we've got some top-tier clients, JLL, Deakin University, Alfred Hospital, John Wardle, current gold medal winners. We're doing 22 towers for Victorian State Government at the moment. So yeah. But yeah, so the, the... But really the ideal customer is, is any site that has site complexity. And I would argue that anywhere in a city or suburb would have some level of site complexity, be it heritage, detail, be it rocks, trees, power lines, anything. Like, if you've got anything like that in and around your site, then, then we'll be able to help.

Jennifer Harrison: Have you discovered any kind of unexpected or ancillary use cases or, or benefits? A- any clients that you wouldn't have, have thought would be interested in purchasing from you but have?

Simon Cookes: Yeah. We've been selling a lot of stuff to, say, like, churches and schools, which is bang on what we're looking at. But some ancillary ones is we've got customers that are doing, like, 5G rollouts, so, like, telco engineers. One that is becoming more of a thing is traffic engineers or builders that are trying to work out clearances for delivering things. We did one the other day, which we sold eight kilometers stretch of road where... 'cause they needed to deliver this massive piece of equipment off a freeway and needed to make sure they were gonna clear the power lines and bridges and, and that kind of thing. I just saw in the news. I used to work in Melbourne. I'm based in Sydney now, but I used to work in Melbourne in, um, uh, near City Road there, and, and every six months or so, we'd hear this almighty whack, and we'd run out of the office and see this truck on its side 'cause it's hit, hit the underpass. And so these, it's quite common that trucks and delivery kind of equipment hit things. And obviously, in one of those instances while I was working there, someone died. It's pretty severe when these things happen, so you want to avoid them. And w- we can provide data for as low as $150 for a small bit of road. It's definitely worth the investment rather than killing someone.

Jennifer Harrison: No, absolutely. When technology can avoid human beings being ha- having to be placed at risk, that's fantastic testimony to proptech, whether that's people not having to go on roofs and risk falling from height or people not having to go, you know, closer than they should to power lines and, and things of that nature. That's wonderful to hear. What is coming up for LARKI for the rest of the year? Is there anything particularly exciting on, on the product roadmap that you can share with us?

Simon Cookes: Yeah. So there's kind of four main components of, of LARKI. So there's this high-res 2D map. Even though we're in a 3D company, it's still used for, you know, 2D. And so we've got high-resolution aerial imagery that architects can do. We're, we're building up the tool base there so they can do things like master planning, things like that. In terms of the back end kind of point cloud engine, I suppose you could call it, we're making it more ac- the, the data more accurate. We're cleaning it. We're making it more useful and faster to acquire, so that's improving all the time. But also some working on making the data more collaborative with the 3D, making it easier for people to share views and, and work collaboratively. And like trying to, to go deeper into the survey industry and, and not just have surveyors as partners, but also to be able to provide them with data and, and the software to, to help them do what they do, and that includes platforms like Archistart. So we're talking to platforms like Archistart to provide this kind of high resolution but also affordable data to, to other platforms as well. Yep. Yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. I'm... Thank you. We, we love it so much when, proptech, proptechs work with other proptechs. It's fantastic. Thank you so much for telling us more about LARKI, Simon.

Simon Cookes: Thanks, Jennifer. Really appreciate it.

Jennifer Harrison: Mohsen, let's have a chat about Faramoon. Can you please give us your elevator pitch?

Mohsen Kalantari: Jennifer, Faramoon automates the creation of digital twins for, uh, the architecture, engineering, and construction. Creating digital twins is time-consuming, costly because there's a lot of manual intervention and manu-manual modelling and editing needs to be done on the source data. So we automate that process.

Jennifer Harrison: Perfect. So can you tell us a little bit more about the problem you're solving for on these manual challenges? What challenges would people have to overcome if your solution wasn't available?

Mohsen Kalantari: Laser scanning, as, uh, Simon mentioned, is the main source or the prominent source currently for creating digital twins. So you, you use different types of, uh, technologies. We focus on indoor modelling, creating digital twins for indoors of the building. For a, say, a residential building, one storey, two storey or, uh, or even a four, uh, storey building, you can use a lan- a handheld, uh, laser scanner and scan the, uh, the building in an hour or so. So one hour, two hours. But creating digital twins or converting that point cloud into a, a useful data 3D model, uh, generally can take up to 80 hours, depending on what level of detail, uh, you, you want from, from that building. So we address that problem. So we address that gap currently in industry where our software, the technology that we have developed can take the, uh, indoor model of a building and indoor point cloud of a building and create a, a 3D model with a button of a click.

Jennifer Harrison: Perfect.

Mohsen Kalantari: Click of a button, sorry.

Jennifer Harrison: Okay, fun. Perfect. Can you tell us a little bit more about what have you built with this technology? How long did it take? And h- h- how have you built it?

Mohsen Kalantari: Yes. I also, I wear another hat. I'm an academic with Melbourne University and a faculty member of, uh, School of Engineering. I will be joining University of New South Wales from June. As part of the research that we've been doing in, in our, in my research group, we've been dealing with a lot of different types of scanning technologies. And we identified this problem that if you want to u- uh, to create, um, or extract information from laser scan data, useful information that Simon was referring, uh, to, for the architects to be, to be useful, because a point cloud itself is not, it is not useful. You can make measurement and you can measure dimensions of the point cloud, but there's more potential. There's more you can do with point cloud, and you can extract information. And that was where we started working on a, on a research project how we can automate extraction of in- information from point clouds. In fact, we started with extracting floor plans from point cloud data, but then our technology or the research was able to create, um, 3D models from point clouds. So there was also a, a demand for it in the market, talking to, uh, back then a few surveying companies, and then we decided to embark on commercialisation of this research outcome.

Jennifer Harrison: Can you tell us a little bit more about who, who are your customers? Do you have an ideal customer, and what's your go-to-market approach?

Mohsen Kalantari: Yes. We target three groups, if you like, that three groups in the architecture, engineering, construction that deal with point clouds or laser scan data. One is the surveying and mapping industry. Uh, they obviously provide point clouds to their client, and sometimes their client want the 3D model from the point cloud, so we provide, uh, services to them. But not all surveying mapping companies do that, generally the bigger companies which can afford the digital, uh, laser scanning technologies. These are generally medium-size surveying mapping companies. Architecture companies also, they are the early adopters, tho- those that are innovators. For example, we work with a company in the... an architect company in the UK. They do many scans per week, so basically laser scanning is part of their, their workflow, so standard workflow. For every building that they renovate they need to have this digital twin, so that is very well-embedded in their process. Also, there is drafting companies, or if you co- we call them modelling houses. We generally are in the, in the co- countries with lower labor costs in Southeast Asia, India, and they also... we also provide services to them because we can automate the creation of the point cloud. So although they do a lot of manual processing on our data, but still, uh, we add value, uh, to their work- workflows.

Jennifer Harrison: Okay. And what kind of positive feedback have you been getting from the market?

Mohsen Kalantari: Look, the positive feedback, I guess, is that there is more demand for the automation. So every time we present our, uh, product they say, "Can you do this? Can you do that?" Even to the extent that sometimes some of the companies that work in asset management, they even ask us, "Can you map behind the walls and all the services, et cetera?" And I say, "Look, we are not in the mapping business of... but laser scanning cannot do that. There are other technologies that can do it." So there are many buildings, as you would appreciate, that, uh, not only they don't have the floor plans currently or the blueprints, uh, they also lack the data about the services in the building. So these asset management companies that build, uh, companies that manage the buildings, they are also not only interested in the architecture and design of the buildings but also in what is, what's available in terms of the services. So that's another interesting, if you like, feedback that we receive, but obviously we don't have that technology and the lidar technology, the, the, the data that we, uh, we process doesn't have that capability.

Jennifer Harrison: Yes. It's, I think it's a, a, a somewhat common frustration for people who work in the startup world in that often when you're explaining to people what you do they're like, "That's great, but could you also do something," something that's an extension or a different... And you're a bit, "I was hoping you'd buy what I've already built but fantastic that you're giving me the feedback that you like it, and you're helping me see where we could go with the product roadmap." So Mohsen, where, where are you going with the product?

Mohsen Kalantari: We currently working on, um, au- further features on the automation. Particularly we now have an substantial amount of data collected from, from our customers, and with their consent now we are working on methods that are even faster that our current methods based on, uh, machine learning and AI, looking at the historic data of buildings and how we can learn from them to, uh, even, um, make better, if you like, more accurate models and in, in a faster way so that these are the things that we're currently, uh, working on.

Jennifer Harrison: Okay. And have you discovered any kind of unexpected benefits or ancillary benefits, right, that have opened your eyes to a possible ex- extension of your product?

Mohsen Kalantari: Most of the clients that we've had are things that you expect from indoor modelling. But I think the most interesting project that we, uh, we were involved as part of the consortium, big consortium, was a, a, a modelling of a school, uh, building, um, that had multipurpose. One of the purposes was emergency management, sort of safety of the school, and generally we don't see what is next after the digital twin. So where things, uh, end up, the client gets the digital twin and they use it for something. We don't necessarily, uh, always, uh, know what the details are. But in this particular project it was interesting that the 3D model, the laser scan we got from another company, we created the 3D model and then that, on that 3D model there was, uh, different, if you like, routing technologies and finding best way to evacuate the building and different scenarios. So that was really end-to-end application of digital twinning, public safety, and emergency management.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, and I guess that's one of, you know, the, the classic uses for a model for something that is a version of the real world but inside a computer environment that you can control. You can run scenarios, you can play with different options and different choices and figure out which one is optimal and do that conveniently from a desk without having to do the real-life experimentation.

Mohsen Kalantari: That's right. That's right. That is, if you like, one of the premises of digital twin. So you create the digital representation of the real world so you can, uh, not only understand how it looks like and what i- is involved in the digital twin, but also you can run experiments and how it will look like if I do these changes, different scenario. And that is, that's something that already happens in other industries as well, so it's not only the architecture and design industry. So digital twins obviously have a wider application.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. Perfect. Thanks, Mohsen. Thanks for talking to us about Pyramyd. Anycie, let's have a chat about Archistar. Can you please give us your elevator pitch?

Anycie Barakat: Sure. So Archistar is a digital platform that helps you instantly assess development sites and find out where you can and should build. So property developers, architects, and builders all use Archistar to gain insight into all the planning and regulation controls for a property. They use it to mitigate risk by reviewing flood, bush fire, and heritage layers on a site. You can understand the nearby environment, looking at points of interest, schools, major roads, electricity lines, that sort of... And once you have actually found a site, you can then start building. So you can design on your site digitally. You can generate 3D buildings, and on those building designs, or those concept designs, you can review sunlight exposure, shadows, and ventilation controls, plus a few more under the belt there. But yeah, so I guess once you're there, you can... From there you can check compliance. So you can say, okay, you know, is this building comply with this certain planning code? Does it not? And if not, where does it not comply and what can I do to help that out? And from there you can run feasibilities on the fly, and so get instant feasibility, and then submit that design for approval directly from the platform. So yeah, this is all about kind of speeding up that initial site finding and design application process.

Jennifer Harrison: So can you tell us a little bit more about what's the old school way to do this? I imagine it's a little bit similar to what Simon was saying. People have to actually go out to site and hurdle fences and hold measuring sticks up to trees and things of this nature. Is that right?

Anycie Barakat: Yeah, 100%, 100%. So yeah, so it's, um... So originally, people had to, yeah, like Mohsen said, you have to go to a site. Firstly, you have to find a site that you, that you're looking for. Looking at all the different planning controls from the government. There's hundreds of different documents that say, you know, on this site you can build this, on this site you can build that, and it's actually quite hard to visualize what information is there. And then from there you have to say, okay, I like this sort of site. Yeah. But what site is actually available? Is it for sale? Is it not for sale? How do I find this? To get that data, it's pretty tricky. You'd have to look at multiple websites, different, different tools, and they're quite expensive as well. The money does add up. So with Archistar we pull that all into one system and offer kind of a cheaper rate as well to, to get you across the line. But once you're there, it's... You say, "Okay, what can I build on this site?" And we tried a few different building designs, manually check if they're compliant. We say, is the sunlight correct on all these apartments? Is there enough ventilation? Do I meet these standards? And, and only, only then can you submit that in and go from there. And once you do submit it in, it does take a while to, to get back any feedback. You know, am I can, am I, have I passed or not passed? What's compliant, what's not compliant? It might be before you get any kind of feedback, then you repeat that process and go again. So the way we kind of work at Archistar, we really want to shorten that initial process. Shift that curve from spending more time in that mi- that middle kind of design phase, um, and get rid of the time that's spent at the initial planning and designing.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. And obviously the better the information you have before you even submit something for planning approval, it just has to be more optimal to go through that whole planning approval process rather than waiting for them to come back with questions.

Anycie Barakat: Definitely. Yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: Yep.

Anycie Barakat: Yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: And would it be right in saying a lot of the planning or all of the plan- a lot of the planning, most of the planning rules in Australia are state by state based?

Anycie Barakat: Yes. Yeah, definitely. So a lot of them are state by state, and then there are some that you go into a development control plan where you go further into lot by lot. So for example, you might be on a specific lot and they say, "On this road your setback has to be this, you know, much, and then on this specific road your setback has to be that much." It can get da- really down into the details on there as well, and that all completely affects that design process.

Jennifer Harrison: Right. So can you tell us a little bit more about how you've built Archistar and the technology that you've built into it?

Anycie Barakat: Yeah. So the, the way Archistar works, it's a digital platform, so it's all web-based or cloud-based. Um, you have one single application, and it's all based around a core mapping. What we do is we overlay property data. We capture and process, install that data, including planning rules, zoning data, contours, market data and so on. And then from that we collate that data into our database. We run a few, or more than a few, algorithms that allow you to predict sites that have property deve- development potential. And from there, once we help you find that site there, a lot of our, a lot of the way we work is actually very, helping you very quickly find that site. So rather than spending months looking for a site or looking through, say, 60 odd sites, we can process thousands of sites in a few minutes or even seconds and help you really shrink down that process. But once you have found that site, we can generate building designs on them and check them for compliance, all using different generator methods and algorithms that we've developed internally.

Jennifer Harrison: And do you have a, a typical customer or an ideal customer, and what's your go-to-market approach?

Anycie Barakat: Yeah, we do. So mainly we use property developers, architects, and builders on our platform. With C- with COVID, we even get people like valuers and that coming and, and looking digitally at all these different options that they can. Like yourself and Mohsen said, prior to this everything's turned online. The, the more you can't actually get out and have a look at any piece of land, the, the more important... And this digital platform works, works for them. So, you know, our goal personally is to be the number one property research platform in Australia. And, you know, since we launched in 2018 we've grown pretty rapidly, achieving now 100% revenue, uh, growth year on year for the last three years, which is exciting. And we have people like CBRE, Frasers Property, uh, Mirvac, Stocklands, Colliers International and a few more under our belt. But I think the main thing that kinda comes out of it when we have, you know, go to market, we get, you know, some pretty clear results coming from it. So what we tell people and that we've found is that per project our customers are saving around 30 grand. After quantifying time spent in consultant costs, we found that- They're running their projects 30 times faster than finding it manually, finding sites manually, and the return is around 10 times. So they're maximizing their investments with our Archistar workflow. And now our aim is to really even speed that up even further. So we're constantly talking to our clients, finding how we can simplify the method down and, and speed up that process for them.

Jennifer Harrison: What are some of the commercial reasons or what's some of the positive feedback you're getting from people like CBRE as to why they work with you? And can I ask, can I slightly flip that question?

Anycie Barakat: Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Harrison: Do, do you get objections?

Anycie Barakat: Oh, definitely, yeah. I think all companies do, right? Yeah. But yeah, we do. So, like, we have had, you know, quite a few positive feedback. Some people say they're able to look up planning controls and show clients what we can or we can't do within minutes. Some people say it saves up to six hours per week of finding time, development time. And others have said the platform has doubled or even tripled their productivity, which is all really great. Other kind of negative things, I guess I'm not really... I'm sure, I'm sure there's a few, but I guess, you know, maybe like I don't even know, to be honest. Um-

Jennifer Harrison: Interesting, 'cause I just-

Anycie Barakat: Yeah

Jennifer Harrison: ... I suppose one of the questions is change is ha- like, change is hard. The real es- the real estate and property industry, I think change for, for some reasons seems to be harder than it is in other industries than-

Anycie Barakat: Yeah, yeah

Jennifer Harrison: ... for example, finance.

Anycie Barakat: Yeah, definitely. I know definitely with our architects, when it comes to design concepts and that sort of thing, if they... Something that it's not enough detail, that's not really what we're aiming for, full detail designs really anyway. We kind of market them more as design concepts, which is a lot easier because it's, it's very, it's a lot easier to say, okay, building in this direction with this number of apartments would work on this site more, these number of townhouses and so on would work here. We're not really looking to go into full detail, you know, this is a complete final design-

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah

Anycie Barakat: ... that you can upload. But yeah, so like w- it just depends really how we market the product and on how it comes back as feedback as well.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. And have you discovered any unexpected use cases or ancillary benefits that might not have originally been envisaged?

Anycie Barakat: Oh, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Since we have all the kind of planning rules in our database, we update them frequently. We've found that we've got a lot of interest from government bodies to get our technology and start using it, and this is where the whole compliance section of our business really popped up, especially through COVID and not being able to visit sites and that sort of thing. But we found that we know government bodies such as the Victorian state government and they've helped... We've helped them significantly reduce planning approval times and digitally transform that planning approval process. And the idea there is that we can bring more speed, more certainty and transparency by digitizing those planning rules, and being able to automatically check if a building that is uploaded and assessed is compliant or not.

Jennifer Harrison: Mm.

Anycie Barakat: You know, which sections are and which sections aren't, and getting a, a really clear feedback loop between the customer and that governing.

Jennifer Harrison: I think sometimes some of the people who are possible objectors to property technology are people who are actually scared that their own job is now going to possibly be redundant, or that they're-

Anycie Barakat: Yeah

Jennifer Harrison: ... gonna have to find something else to apply their skills and experience to if the technology can just keep getting better and better. And in terms of getting better and better, what's coming up for Archistar on the product roadmap? Yeah.

Anycie Barakat: We have a busy few years coming up, but one thing we're really focusing on doing is, uh, listening to our customer feedback. So we're currently in the process of simplifying our user experience, so making it really easy for any mom and dad or any kind of user that wants to come on and use the platform to, to do that. And in addition, we have a few big projects with those governing bodies, really upping our compliance checking tools in the few years ahead.

Jennifer Harrison: Wonderful. Thanks, Anycie. I'll just say for people joining us live, if you would like to ask a question to the panel, you can use the Q&A feature. You can also drop a comment into the chat. I've got a couple of extra questions. Uh, Simon, if I could come back to you, please. Where does the name Larqie-

Simon Cookes: Land surveying, architecture, real estate knowledge on the internet. But it's also, uh, a lark is a bird that is used in Shakespeare and religious texts to, to signify the bringer of new things. And they're up in the sk- the clouds, so it kind of sound- seemed relevant. And an E at the end, you gotta have an E on the end if you're a tech company, or, you know.

Jennifer Harrison: An I, yes. Is there anything we haven't covered yet that you'd really like people to know about Larqie?

Simon Cookes: Yeah. We, we're gonna do another round of investment towards the end of the year. So any investors out there, reach out. We have data that you can buy online. We've got a 25% off at the moment for the streetscape and the aerial data. $124 including GST downloaded in a, in an hour is just, like, unheard of in the industry for lidar data. And I suppose the kind of, just to clarify the difference between something like, say, an, uh, the Archistar's 3D or Nearmap or, or some of these other tools is that we bring detail and accuracy. It's not like a block model. It's, you'll see branches and leaves and trees. It's, like, really detailed. And that kind of level of detail is really important for architects and property developers because things like chimneys, which wouldn't usually be captured, or heritage or pitched roofs, they actually do affect what you can develop. You can't... You have to have clearances around things like power lines and trees and chimneys and heritage. And so all this stuff is really important to, to understand and we get asked sometimes about the kinda ESG or envi- you know, um, environmental, um, social governance, or ESD, ecologically sustainable design component of what we do. And the s- the, the simple answer is that if you don't know in detail what is there actually on your site, things like trees and cliffs, like, how can you, how can you design precisely and take into consideration any of these kind of factors in a, in, in a sophisticated way? And you know, I mean, the answer is you can't. So it's very... E- everything out there at the moment is very back of the envelope, very kinda rough, rough guesstimate kinda thing. And like, like we mentioned before, poor quality in equals poor quality out. And sure, it's, it's getting better all the time, but really this is, Larqie is a big step in, up in terms of getting that really, really high detail in a really easy and quick and affordable way.

Jennifer Harrison: And what's the best way for people to find out more about LARKI and also to connect with you personally?

Simon Cookes: Yeah, they could go on larky.com.au. They could... I'm on Instagram and, and Facebook and all those sorts of places. LinkedIn's probably the best one for this audience, but yeah, or, or just info@larky.com.au. I'll see that one.

Jennifer Harrison: Perfect.

Simon Cookes: Thanks. Thanks.

Jennifer Harrison: Mohsen, if I could come back to you, please, where does the name Faramoon come from?

Mohsen Kalantari: Yes. Uh, look, I, my background is Iranian, so I am, I have that Iranian background, and Faramoon is Farsi's Persian name for dimension, so that is, that's the, that's where the name comes from. Yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: Okay. And is there anything we haven't covered about Faramoon that you'd really like people to know?

Mohsen Kalantari: I, I think we've, we've covered, uh, most of the things, but I'll, I invite the, uh, attendees to jump on our website, www.faramoon.io. There's a button, Meet With Us. You can connect in that way. I'm also on LinkedIn. Happy to have a chat. We provide, um, a, a special, if you like, discount for our first, if you like, customers, first time users of the-

Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm

Mohsen Kalantari: ... of the system, so you can benefit from that.

Jennifer Harrison: Lovely. And Anycie, Archistar, where does the name Archistar come from?

Anycie Barakat: Yeah. Uh, it, it's, uh, it has to do with... I think initially it was Architect Star Rating, but then we've expanded since then, but we've kept the name. So, yeah, that was the initial... 'Cause five, six years ago when we did begin, we were very heavily on looking specifically building designs and, and that sort of thing there. But we've definitely since then, but the name stuck, so, yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: And is there anything we haven't already covered about Archistar that you'd really like people to know?

Anycie Barakat: We've, we've been through a lot, but I think it just definitely really honing in on being able to help people during this, you know, hard time with the pandemic, being able to help people assess sites more efficiently and remotely, so removing that need to be on site and, and do all that sort of things there. And I guess on top of that, we're really excited about what's happening with the government body and digitally transforming these industries and seeing how far we can take it.

Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, I think we've all just become very used to, to working from home most of the time-

Anycie Barakat: Yeah

Jennifer Harrison: ... I think. Yes.

Anycie Barakat: Yeah.

Jennifer Harrison: Um, thanks. Anycie, what's the best way for people to find out more about Archistar and also to connect with you personally?

Anycie Barakat: Yeah. Well, you can connect with me through LinkedIn directly, or, uh, you can get a free demo on our website, so archistar.ai/demo, and through there you can subscribe to our newsletter as well.

Jennifer Harrison: Wonderful. No questions have come through from the live audience, but thank you to our live audience for joining us today and staying. It's been my pleasure to host the panel today and find out more about 3D, and digital twins, and laser scanning, and BIM, and LiDAR, and all those great things. Thank you very much, Simon Cookes from LARKI for joining us.

Simon Cookes: Pleasure.

Jennifer Harrison: Thank you very much, Mohsen Kalantari from Faramoon.

Mohsen Kalantari: Thank you for having us.

Jennifer Harrison: And thank you very much to Anycie Barakat from Archistar.

Anycie Barakat: Thanks, guys.

Jennifer Harrison: And thank you again to everyone for joining us. If you don't already follow us, please do follow Proptech Association Australia on LinkedIn. We will make the recording and some other information available about this panel, and also, we always post and use LinkedIn to advertise the upcoming panels. Remember, it's the fourth Tuesday of every month live at 12:00 PM. I'm Jennifer Harrison. I'm the vice president of the Proptech Association Australia. Thanks very much for being with us, and I'll see you next time.