Proptech panel: What the Consumer Data Right means for real estate
The Consumer Data Right (CDR) started with open banking in 2020 and extended to open energy in 2022, giving consumers the ability to share their banking and energy data securely with accredited third parties. While fintech lenders have moved quickly to use that data, the property sector has been slower to tap into it.
Recorded for CDR Month, this Proptech Association Australia panel was moderated by association vice president Jennifer Harrison, who was joined by Tim Poskitt of Envestnet Yodlee, Adam Vidal of Basiq, Neil McVeigh of Greener and Ross Sharman of Accurassi.
The panellists explained what data is available through the CDR, the accreditation and representative pathways proptechs can use to access it without carrying the full compliance burden, and how banking and smart meter data can support rental applications, affordability checks, solar and battery sizing and carbon tracking.
On the panel:
Jennifer Harrison – Vice President, Proptech Association Australia (moderator)
Tim Poskitt – Country Manager, Australia and New Zealand, Envestnet Yodlee
Adam Vidal – Chief Commercial Officer, Basiq
Neil McVeigh – Co-founder, Greener
Ross Sharman – Executive Chairman, Accurassi
The conversation covered:
(00:01) Jennifer Harrison kicks off the Proptech Association Australia panel celebrating three years of the Consumer Data Right.
(02:42) Tim Poskitt explains Envestnet Yodlee's roots as Australia's first data aggregator operating across 19 countries.
(06:31) Tim breaks down the grueling accreditation process required by the ACCC to become an Accredited Data Recipient (ADR).
(08:22) The CDR representative model explained: how proptechs can lean on an ADR's license while the aggregator wears the liability.
(14:54) Adam Vidal introduces Basiq and how they orchestrate financial data and payments through a single consent platform.
(18:00) Adam shares how open banking attributes can replace manual payslips and bank statements in rental appraisal applications.
(23:05) Adam details Basiq's sponsor affiliate program, allowing businesses like Greener to access CDR faster at a lower cost.
(24:49) Unpacking alternative pathways: Trusted Advisor models for brokers and accountants, versus the limitations of CDR Insights.
(31:13) Ross Sharman outlines how Accurassi reads PDF energy bills and why CDR smart meter data is a game-changer for comparison engines.
(36:14) Ross explains how one-in-three homes with smart meters enables accurate solar and battery sizing for green financing.
(42:33) Neil McVeigh introduces Greener and their mission to help consumers and businesses tackle the 60% of emissions driven by purchasing decisions.
(44:27) How Greener uses open banking transaction data combined with University of Sydney spend-based carbon emission factors.
(49:11) Neil reflects on why Greener chose Basiq's sponsored affiliate model as the fastest, safest route to market as a startup.
(52:25) Panel roadmap sneak peeks: insights-only comparisons, solar and battery tooling, cross-market expansions, and frictionless payment integrations.
In their words:
“I walked into open banking after almost 20 years in the payments industry, where I thought that the data attributes would be similar to payments and be the same format across every financial institution as a set standard. In my two years here at Basiq, I've seen in fintech and the acceleration to market speed of conversion, the value aggregators like us provide to clean up and present CDR in a format that allows businesses like proptechs to read, review into their decision platforms would not happen without aggregators like Basiq.” – Adam Vidal
“The smart meter data is extremely useful, so most Victorians have it. One in three homes in New South Wales and Queensland and South Australia have a smart meter. That means that we can do a very accurate ascertain as to whether or not you need a battery with your solar.” – Ross Sharman
“60% of emissions ultimately come from the purchasing decisions of consumers. It's what we buy that ultimately influences emissions around the world, whether it be shipping or farming, manufacturing. And so if we want to influence lasting behaviour change, get to zero, we need an easy way to help people not only understand their individual carbon footprints, but really kind of take action on reducing those.” – Neil McVeigh
About the panel:
Tim Poskitt is country manager for Australia and New Zealand at Envestnet Yodlee, one of the longest-standing financial data aggregators.
Adam Vidal is chief commercial officer at Basiq, the open banking and financial data platform, and brings almost 20 years' experience in payments.
Neil McVeigh is co-founder of Greener, which uses open banking transaction data to help consumers and businesses understand and reduce their carbon footprint.
Ross Sharman is executive chairman of Accurassi, the energy comparison technology company that works with banks, energy retailers and governments.
Transcript:
This is an automated transcript of the panel, lightly edited for readability. Please excuse any errors.
Jennifer Harrison: Hello, and welcome to the proptech Panel. I'm Jennifer Harrison and I'm the vice president of the Proptech Association Australia. We are a member organization by proptech and for proptech. Our mission is to accelerate the adoption of technology at all stages in the real estate life cycle. Today's webinar is a little bit special. It's also quite close to my heart, because I love exploring the intersections of FinTech with proptech. And one of the biggest themes in FinTech over the last few years has been open banking. This month is CDR month, celebrating the upcoming third birthday of Australia's Consumer Data Right, which went live with open banking in 2020, and then extended into open energy in 2022. On the panel today, we've got some experts in CDR, and we're gonna talk through, first of all, h- what data can you access, how can you access it, and then once you've accessed it, what can you do with it, and how can that work for people in the real estate industry? So I'd like to introduce the panel. My first guest today is Tim Poskitt, who is the country manager for Australia and New Zealand for Envestnet Yodlee. Hello, Tim, thank you so much for being with us today. How are you?
Tim Poskitt: Hey, Jen. Good, thank you. Thanks for being here. Thanks for your time.
Jennifer Harrison: Adam Vidal is the chief commercial officer for Basiq Australia, New Zealand. Good day, Adam. How are you today?
Adam Vidal: Well, Jennifer, thanks for the invitation to talk today. Really excited to be here.
Jennifer Harrison: Neil McVeigh is co-founder of Greener. Thank you so much for being with us t- today, Neil. How are you?
Neil McVeigh: I'm doing great today, Jennifer. Thank you very much for having me. Excited.
Jennifer Harrison: And Ross Sharman is executive chairman of Accurassi. Hello, Ross. How are you today?
Ross Sharman: Hi, Jen. I'm really well and looking forward to the session. Thank you.
Jennifer Harrison: Perfect. Thank you so much. So let's get to it. Tim, let me come to you first. And for people who don't know Envestnet Yodlee, can you please explain a little bit about Envestnet Yodlee? What do you do, and what kinds of clients do you work with?
Tim Poskitt: Sure. Thanks, Jen. Um, so for those who don't know Envestnet Yodlee, we were the first ever data aggregator in Australia. So been operating for over 12 years in Australia and New Zealand, um, and globally for over 20 years. So we were one of the first ever organizations to ultimately aggregate bank transaction data, solving various different use cases. So you talk about financial wealth management, you talk about lending, you talk about property saving, property investing. They're some of the key use cases that we're solving for today. Our parent company is a large wealth advisory platform, um, Envestnet, who is listed on the New York Stock Exchange, and we have a large wealth advisory part to our organization. Um, in terms of global, we, we sort of reach to over 19 countries globally in terms of our reach with our open banking data sets. And in Australia and New Zealand, clients range quite broadly from tier one banks all the way down to a lot of proptech startups. So we really cover the full end-to-end from cycles from consumer lending, commercial lending, then all the way through to sort of early startup across the ESG proptech, um, vertical as well.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay. Now, CDR, or Consumer Data Right, a lot of people would know that as open energy and open banking. What kind of banking and energy data can people access via CDR? And a kind of a follow-up question is, what kind of analytics can you run over that data once you've accessed it?
Tim Poskitt: Yeah, I mean, the full obviously point of, uh, the o- the CDR regime and having a full consumer data right in Australia, which as you says, our third anniversary, is ultimately having a regulated data set that ultimately is more accurate, the data is better quality from a speed perspective, and ultimately is giving better output to solve the use case that we're trying to solve for. So the use case that we're seeing coming from the back of open banking and on open data is ultimately giving full transactional life history, um, on an individual or an org- or an organization to fully meet their use case. Um, analytics that we're throwing on top of it, which we've been doing for a long time already, I suppose, through r- other types of APIs, ultimately is enriching the service. So we're obviously providing enrichment. So not just aggregating bank data, enriching it to ensure the merchant categories is correct. Also providing, I suppose, recommendations to an organization or to a, to a business in terms of what their full, um, position should be. Should they from making a lending decision or not make a lending decision, should they lend to this person? Should they rent property to this individual? So it's really providing some smarts and machine learning over the bank transaction data. And then if we come into open, um, energy, which, you know, is, is, is obviously in its inf- stages, it's really I think even more critical now as we look at a cost of living crisis, we look at what energy price is doing and how you're actually looking at your meter reading. And there's some really interesting use cases that we've seen coming out from our sort of organizations that work through the comparison stages, where they're really looking at metric reading and seeing what those, the terminal will output, um, and we can transfer that data is probably another interesting use case that we've really seen. So I think ultimately- It is the, the start of a CDR regime journey. And I think our current focus obviously is strongly on both open banking and open energy. We're really keen to get, I suppose, open banking into full utilization across the ecosystem.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm, certainly. Now, Envestnet Yodlee is an accredited data recipient, or ADR. As is Basiq, who are also on our panel today. Can you please explain to people what does that mean? What does it mean that you are an ADR?
Tim Poskitt: Sure. So to access open banking data through the ACCC as a governing body, ultimately regime-ing the full consumer data right, you've got to be an accredited data recipient. To do that, you have to go through an accreditation process. And what that means is you've got to go through quite a lot of, um, compliance testing. Um, you've also got to pass a number of onboarding requirements. You've also got to go through large qu- um, conformance testing with them. So ultimately, as an organization, this is our fifth, um, geography of regulated open banking globally. But the full process of accessing open banking independently through your license, i.e. we're an accredited data recipient, or through an individual's lice- another organization's license, you've got to be accredited by the ACCC. And, and to go through this process ultimately there's a huge amount of compliance that you've got to go through. So we've gone through this process. Um, it's not a quick process. I think it's, it's certainly got quicker, but and, um, it's certainly ti- hugely time-consuming. And, you know, I think some organizations looking at relying on licenses of ourselves or people like Adams as well at Basiq, I think that's now a huge trend we've seen.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm. Now, one of the ways that people in the real estate ecosystem could work with a partner like Envestnet Yodlee or Basiq to access CDR data is a pathway model called CDR representative, which I know is by far the most popular and attractive pathway that people are choosing. Could you please explain a little bit what is the CDR representative model, and why do you think that has proven to be so popular?
Tim Poskitt: Yes. I mean, so as I was alluding to, so I think the, a large barrier to entry of the full CDR regime initially was ultimately how can we access the data and, you know, with the large cost, you know, ultimately, um, was a huge barrier to entry. So it was great to see, and this model sort of, um, really aligns to what we're seeing in the UK around accessing orga- organizations accessing open banking data in, in UK and Europe, was through the CDR representative model. So ultimately what it's meaning is that the fintech or the proptech organization is ultimately relying on upon a license for Envestnet Yodlee or our peers in the market, but we're taking all the liability and risk. So ultimately, it's up to us as an organization to fully undertake our, our compliance testing on that organization, because we ultimately wear the liability if anything was incorrectly ever done with the CDR data. Um, which ultimately allows the proptech to access the data quicker, and it's a huge barri- huge removal of a barrier to entry. And it's up to us, and we're a, you know, compliance is one of our key priorities and key ultimately things that we stand behind. So to do that on that organization. So yes, it's a really quick way to enter the market to access open banking data.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm. So where do you see opportunities for open banking and open energy data to be applied to solve problems in the real estate sector? Could you talk through some examples?
Tim Poskitt: Yeah, sure. So I think there's really a couple of things that we've really seen. So I think, um, green financing, um, and insurance for renewable energy is one for... Sorry, for energy storage, is a really interesting use case that we've seen. And we've seen some, um, finance organizations starting to look at this in more detail. Um, you know, key use cases around comparison. So some of the comparison use cases we've seen, but not just from a necessarily banking, pure banking data, but around the open data and open energy datasets. I think also, um, some landlord incentive alignments around some, some, um, affordability for, for, for those organizations who are doing some... I think at the moment, you know, some of the processes are quite manual. So I think having some real-time datasets that would ultimately let them look at this data in real time would be great forward. And also I think, um, some streamlining across energy scorecards. We've seen some organizations who are looking at, um, some large energy organizations that look at this data locally as well and seeing what they can do in terms of, um, matching some of their datasets from that perspective. But I think, um, I think some of the use cases that we're seeing with the datasets are, they've been around for a while. So I think some of the datasets that they were, that we're seeing out of open banking are really just maturing a little bit more and getting more adoption and maybe getting more, um, more focus. But ultimately, I think a lot of them have been solved for or a lot of them have been worked through originally previously through non-regulated open banking APIs. I think that's an important point to mention.
Jennifer Harrison: Like, would mortgages be an example there?
Tim Poskitt: Mortgage, 10-minute mortgage. There's, you know, a couple of big banks at the moment that are doing 10-minute mortgages. We support people like TikTok Home Loans in the market, and they're doing a, you know, very quick mortgage. There's a number of other big four banks who are getting a 10-minute mortgage all off the back of, um, you know, open banking data, which we're supporting today in the market and have done for a number of years. So I think ultimately it's by using the dataset, it can bring in just not just purely banking and ultimately energy data. I think that's an important point to mention as well.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, I think there's probably some exciting intersections of the banking and energy data sets we haven't, we haven't explored yet, like commercial landlords possibly giving rent incentives to tenants who are very lean and efficient with their energy usage. But that would require the landlord to actually be able to see their energy usage, and that's a great use case for open energy.
Tim Poskitt: And, and having a real time view on that, I think, as well, rather than it being a manual process.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. Now, Tim, do you personally have a favorite CDR use case?
Tim Poskitt: Um, I think personally just a, a process that I've been through maybe a couple of times over the years, and it's extremely, um, painful, is the mortgage origination process. So, so in terms of, I think I went through the process a couple of years ago and had to upload 19 bank statements manually to go through that process. So I think seeing some of the lending use cases from a mortgage perspective, and then ultimately ensuring that they're going to get... If we can get, you know, mortgage approval through, you know, large organizations 10, 15 minutes through the, through the use of open banking data, I think that's fantastic.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. I can only agree. And what advice would you give to a proptech who is just starting to get their head around their CDR data strategy?
Tim Poskitt: Um, ultimately I think if the ability to use more real time data, the better. Um, and I think the more automation, which, you know, people say automation solves many things, but I think it's, you know... The use cases from the data, I think a lot of them are there already. But I think by quickening any onboarding process, reducing any friction, and also mitigating risk are ultimately the benefits of using the data set. So I think by playing with the data, testing the data, looking what, looking what ultimately UX and you can solve for and show to, to your customer is ultimately a benefit that you want to achieve. But I think if you haven't used a data set before and then try to use it, I think it obviously will take some time. But I think ultimately it's really about reducing manual friction through that process for organizations that haven't done it before.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm. And for people who maybe just wanna have a bit of a test and play, does Envestnet Yodlee have, for example, a sandbox facility?
Tim Poskitt: Yeah, exactly. Yes, we do. We have a sandbox facility. It's on our developer portal. So I can send the note around afterwards, a some dev- dev portal. You can go on there, play with the APIs, test the sandbox. Not only use the data set locally, but can use any in other GRs, and you can test it for, you know, 30, 45 days with exactly no charges.
Jennifer Harrison: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Tim. Adam, for people who don't know Baic, can you please tell us in a nutshell what does Baic do?
Adam Vidal: Sure, Jennifer. Um, we were founded in 2017, um, providing businesses ongoing access to financial and identity data, and the ability to process payments via a single, um, platform across Australia and New Zealand. This is enabling customers to focus on building the value that they offer users and customers, where we do the heavy lifting by making sense of the data, ensuring the money moves with no disruption. So basically we're an orchestration of a secure connection between our customers and the cust- consumer's businesses through a single consent. And this is providing our customers a single view of their, uh, users or their own customers or businesses and overall financial position. Off the back of that, also the ability to move fr- money from one account to another.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay. Can you give us a feel for the kinds of clients that you work with? And in particular, do you work with any property related clients like mortgage brokers and lenders? And what kind of data and analytics and payments are you helping them with?
Adam Vidal: Yeah. Um, we actually work across a huge amount of different industries. Some of those are consumer lending, salary advance, PFM and budgeting, wealth, collections of crypto, not for profit, investing, financial institutions like banks, and of course proptech. They all use Baic's data and ability and payment capabilities for many use cases as simple as account verification, which enables faster onboarding to assist with like K- KYC AML requirements. And this removes the need for, you know, the traditional micro deposits or in- instantly verifying the owner of the bank account. Or another one is, um, which is more related to lenders and proptechs, is an affordability assessment. So we provide a 360 degree view of consumers, instantly understanding trends and patterns across income, expenses, assets, and liabilities for loan serviceability and even income check, where we generate insights on income sources, types, and patterns that can be used for simple things like, um, salary advance, but also proptech use cases. There's a number of oth- other examples like payment initiation, data enrichment, um, and real time balance checks as well. Some of the customers in proptech are like Future Rent, Property Me, Campaign Agent, uh, to name a few that we work with today.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm. Uh, we know them very well. And in fact, I think all of those proptechs you just named are finalists in our upcoming Proptech Awards.
Adam Vidal: Good luck.
Jennifer Harrison: Um, if, if we're thinking a bit more future focused, what are some really exciting examples that you can think of as use cases for open banking and open energy data in the proptech and real estate industry?
Adam Vidal: Yeah. So, uh, it's a good question. An example, um, I was thinking of is, you know, a simple property managers are required to complete an appraisal for rental approval. It's encouraged that renters provide as much information as possible to show their ability to rent, like payslips, bank statements, salary, and they need identification. Open banking actually has all these attributes that can be surfaced by, you know, Basiq as a, um, a single API, and this can be fed into their decisioning systems. So, um, they can surface that through their API. Or a property manager could actually just use, um, our no-code dashboard, or an agent could just simply send a link to a ren- new rental application for appraisal. And with a couple of clicks, they would have income, expenses, identity. So basically everything you need, um, except date of birth, which you can't surface through open banking. Um, and this also, uh, ensures the, um, account verification. There's no need to manually download and import transactions. We automatically import the whole bank transactions, so no more PDFs or update uploads of payslips being sent through. Um-
Jennifer Harrison: It's, it's the old human API.
Adam Vidal: Yeah.
Jennifer Harrison: The human is the API. The human downloads from one system and then uploads to another system.
Adam Vidal: Exactly. And you can also use, um, which we've seen in many use cases, open banking to actually pre-fill information, so reducing the amount of time to complete an application. Um, in the energy space, and you touched on earlier, it's, it's an untapped area at the moment, but it has many attributes such as energy plans, account level detail, even as much as their bill and usage, and if they have any sort of energy hardship or make missed payments. So it even allows the ability to switch providers, allowing property agents to get deeper insights into, you know, current tenants with ongoing consent or assessment of their application as well. So it's an untapped area and space at this stage.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, look, I, I agree with you. I think the, the assessment of a tenant, uh, it's, it's really interesting as someone who kind of has one foot in fintech and one foot in proptech, it's really interesting to see the way fintech is so much more efficient in its use of data to solve for certain problems. At, at its heart, when you're lending to someone, it's an affordability problem. A lot of the tenant, a lot of the tenant check is an affordability check. It is a bit more than that because people are concerned that the tenant might physically damage the property. Uh, but look, I, I agree with you, and this might be something that we, we come back to for, for, for more of a discussion 'cause there's, there's marked differences in how fintech and proptech are actually solving for almost the identical problem. Um, but question for you, Adam.
Adam Vidal: Yeah.
Jennifer Harrison: Do you have a favorite CDR use case?
Adam Vidal: I do. This one's actually close to my heart, and it's, uh, a new, um, a new partner of ours, new customer. Um, those who have either visited, like, a Woolies or a supermarket, especially in New South Wales, there's a, a big kiosk called Return and Earn.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm.
Adam Vidal: Um, which is, uh, where you go and provide all your sort of, um, aluminum cans, glass bottles, um, to receive money back for returning them back to those systems. And who would have thought that open banking could play a role in that space? But we have TOMRA, um, which is a new partner of ours, where they're utilizing open banking for sort of two use cases. One in particular, which is a simple account verification, so verifying that it's you.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay.
Adam Vidal: Um, but also asking the customer during that time of consent which bank account details they wanna use to be able to transfer that money when they're returning that, um, that, that bottle into the machine. I just find it fascinating that financial services can, can help, um, help such a, a, an over-the-counter, if you like, business be able to, um, simplify a simple, um, onboarding process.
Jennifer Harrison: That's a great example. And, and like these... This is one of the reasons why we host these webinars is just to surface some of these fantastic examples of where people have discovered a way to innovate and do something better. Um, now Greenr, who are also on the panel today, have chosen to access CDR data through the sponsor affiliate access pathway, and Basiq, you are their sponsor. Can you please explain how that works and what's involved in the sponsor affiliate access pathway?
Adam Vidal: Sure. Firstly, um, just wanted to express we love Greenr. Their use case is so amazing. It's a great example again of how financial data is accessing open banking, um... Sorry, via open banking, and can help repair the planet every time a consumer shops or taps. I think it's just phenomenal, and I love it. Um, as an ADR, uh, which, um, Tim touched on earlier, we are as well. We have the ability to accelerate access to open banking like Greenr. Our businesses become, um, through our sponsor affiliate program. Um, we have the ability to, um, accredit these businesses to access via our sponsorship. Um, so this model allows sponsor affiliates like Greenr, um, have the same privileges to access CDR, um, as an ADR, but at a lower cost and less time to onboard. Although it's an accelerated path compared to being a full-blown ADR, the sponsor affiliate still needs to be approved by the ACCC, so it's not just our approval, which Greenr went through. Um, and that can take anywhere from up to three months sometimes, in, in other cases a bit longer. Um, so, um, they do have to provide their own self-assessment and provide that to the ACCC. Um, the rules around the CDR piece is they would need to resubmit that attestation every two years as well.
Jennifer Harrison: Now, I know one of the things that I'm sure Basiq and Envestnet Yodlee and a lot of people in the CDR ecosystem spend a lot of time on is actually educating people about what's the best pathway and what's the best way for their business model to access the data. It doesn't, um, necessarily make a difference to the data they get. It, there's just differences in how they access it. There's a couple of other models that are out there. There's one called Trusted Advisor, and there's one called CDR Insights. Could you please explain for the audience how those two work?
Adam Vidal: Sure. Um, for Trusted Advisor, it's, um, predominantly designed for financial service providers like brokers, financial advisors, and accountants. They're eligible to access CDR through that Trusted Advisor model. The advantages of this model include a relatively simple accreditation process, where we simply need to verify these organizations as registered businesses holding necessary licenses such as a tax account and registration, for an example. But what we've found the challenge, the challenge is most of these TAs, sorry, trusted advisors, they use software, um, from providers that offer accounting and wealth management services. So what we've done is we've pivoted our focus to serve, um, not directly just to accountants and wealth advisors, but instead have served the software vendors and support their operations. So recently, um, we've just launched a partner, um, onboarding program where providers go through a CDR outsource, um, verification that allows trusted advisors to access open da- open banking data through their software provider of choice. Um, the other one, which is, uh, CDR Insights model, and I've heard this one being kicked around quite a lot, and every different use case feels like they can access Insights. But once you get into the use cases, it, it, it quickly becomes a- apparent that they need to be on one of the other, um, accreditations. But I thought I'd just kick off with just starting off with, um, with Insights. You still require to, um, get consent from that, um, consumer if you're wanting any insights at all. Um, this arrangement also doesn't require external accreditation like sponsor affiliate or principal representative or an ADR. Um, it can be utilized with any organization that works with an unrestricted ADR like Basiq. Um, and under that CDR Insights model, non-accredited parties would receive a really low-risk insights and data, which would benefit, say, um, customers in specific ways that include verification. Um, an example would be sufficient funds to make the payment. The other part it's important to point out is it's only within a point in time. Um, and the CDR consent allows businesses to have ongoing access to data. So if you're getting access to have Insights and you've got the ability to have ongoing data, it has so much more value than just that point in time. So, um, yeah, that's basically Insights for you.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. No, thanks for that, Adam. Agree. I mean, it's, CDR Insights isn't one that a lot of people have really managed to get their heads around and, and are, and are fully embracing. They're tending to go for the, the Trusted Advisor, CDR rep, sponsor affiliate, or in, in a lot of cases, people are going, going the whole way and going for the, for the full accreditation.
Adam Vidal: That's it.
Jennifer Harrison: Um, la- last question for you, Adam, is what advice would you give to a proptech who's just starting to get their head around their CDR data strategy?
Adam Vidal: Don't try it at home. That's my first advice. Um, the level of consistency with every bank, um, reports on how the data sits in their database. CDR has a schema that data holders must follow, but not every data holder has every attribute, and businesses cannot rely on that data will always be available with every institution. Um, CDR is not designed as an access point where any business can just plug in to a financial institution and retrieve the information they require, such as an amalgamated data like income, as most people have multiple income sources, streams, and multiple accounts. And I know this sounds biased, but I walked into open banking after almost 20 years in the payments industry, where I thought that the data attributes would be similar to payments and be the same format across every financial institution as a set standard. In my two years here at Basiq, I've seen in fintech and the acceleration to market speed of conversion, the value aggregators like us provide to clean up and present CDR in a format that allows businesses like proptechs to read, review into their decision platforms would not happen without aggregators like Basiq. So that would be my highest recommendation.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Adam. Neil, let's have a little bit of a chat about Greener. For people who don't know Greener, give us your elevator pitch, please. Oh, I think Neil has frozen momentarily.
Adam Vidal: He's frozen.
Jennifer Harrison: That's okay. I might wait a few seconds other, other what-
Neil McVeigh: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think our, my connection just went a bit wonky. I might...
Jennifer Harrison: It did. It was working perfectly up until now. Um, it... There you are. I think you're back.
Neil McVeigh: I can hear you, Jennifer. I don't know if you can hear me.
Jennifer Harrison: I can hear you, yes. Mm. There, there is a bit of a delay.
Speaker: Is it getting frozen?
Jennifer Harrison: I think, I think it might be your camera or your freeze. Neil, do you know what? I might go to Ross and then come back to you in a few minutes, if that's okay. Um, Ross. For people who don't know Accurassi, what's your elevator pitch?
Ross Sharman: Um, hi, Jan. Yeah, so we, we work in the energy industry. We've been around since 2018. Um, we developed the equivalent of screen scraping in the energy world by developing technology that could read PDF energy bills, um, for the purposes of doing comparisons, and we commercialize that with energy retailers and governments. Um, we more recently, um, developed a use case around solar and batteries, helping, um, you know, homeowners and then business owners understand the benefits of that. And then CDR has been on my want list forever, because having technology to read, you know, 50 different, uh, energy retailers' bills is not good fun. You wanna be able to just go to an API and get that data. So, you know, I'm glad that, um, CDR's here. And, um, yeah, ultimately what we do is we help, um, we help with digital acquisition for customers, um, with solar installers or energy retailers, um, or we can independently help people with energy information such as, you know, being on the best plan through governments. So that's probably answered your next question as well, as who do we work for?
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. That's, that's okay. Great.
Ross Sharman: Yeah.
Jennifer Harrison: So can you give us a few examples of what kinds of customers are, are you working with? And do you actually have a typical or an ideal customer at Accurassi?
Ross Sharman: Yeah. So we've worked with government, so New South Wales and Victoria. Um, they have n- well, New South Wales don't have an energy comparison site, um, and Victoria does. Um, we worked with probably just about every energy retailer in Australia at some point over time, um, and now working with solar installers, but also financiers. Um, and this is where the ins- intersection between, um, I guess fintech and, and energy tech comes to life, and property tech. Um, you know, because the transition to a lower emission future, i.e. with solar and batteries and electric vehicles, um, is gonna need financing. So, you know, the banks, um, and other lenders such as Plenty have a great big role to play here.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, and look, green finance is moving very, very fast, I think, just from my own observations, and it's, um, it's a use case that Tim also referred to earlier, and one that I know at Envestnet Yodlee they're seeing a lot of interest in. Um, can you give us an idea more specifically, Ross, as to what kind of CDR data you are accessing, and how are you accessing it?
Ross Sharman: Okay. I'll answer the second question first.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm.
Ross Sharman: Um, so we work with an ADR, an accredited data recipient called AdaTree.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm.
Ross Sharman: We are a, a representative of theirs, um, so we can access CDR data through that, I guess, mechanism. Um, and I won't repeat what everyone else has said, but it's, uh, not an easy process. Um, what, what, what we've been trying to do is, so the data that we're accessing is basically the energy data. At the moment, um, three energy retailers are live, the three big ones, um, for residential and small business. Um, commercial, um, i.e. larger buildings, um, goes live in May, and then all the rest of the retailers go live in November later this year. So those three main retailers still represent 60% of the market in the Eastern Seaboard, so it's... you know, you've got the majority of customers now available to use CDR data, and that data is, um, energy bills, um, it's payment history, it's the smart meter data from their home if they have a smart meter, um, plus also your connection information. And also if you've got existing solar or batteries on your home, so it tells you details around that.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm. So you mentioned before that you'd actually built your own kind of OCR solution to read data from, from people's PDF bills. Um, so from that perspective, I w- guess we can say, you know, being able to get this data via APR i- is quicker and, and, and simpler. Are there other benefits you're noticing? Like, y- are there differences in the data quality? Are there differences in the analytics you can run over it? Are there some broader benefits to working in the CDR ecosystem than just getting the data?
Ross Sharman: Yep. Look, it's, it's, it's the, it's the availability of a lot of data in a very quick, like, amount of time. So, you know, previously you would've asked someone to upload their latest energy bill. Not everyone carries around their latest energy bill. So it's... you know, they've gotta go and find it. In Victoria they have a, um, they get paid by the government to run their bill through the comparison engine, and once you pay someone some money, they'll find their bill. But, um, on... otherwise it's not, you know, the easiest thing to do. So, you know, I can go and access 12 months of historical bills. Um, I can also get your, um, smart meter data, and I can get that in, you know, 30, 45 seconds. Um, which means that I can do a much more accurate energy comparison because I'm looking over a whole calendar year.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm.
Ross Sharman: Um, the smart meter data is extremely useful, so most Victorians have it. Um, one in three homes in New South Wales and Queensland and South Australia have a smart meter. They, that means that we can do a very accurate ascertain as whether or not you need a battery with your solar. So if you're in the game of selling solar, financing solar, financing batteries, um, CDR for energy actually is a fantastic way of having a healthy customer interaction, telling the customer what products are good for them. Um, and if you're, you know, a bank and you wanna have a green lending conversation with a consumer, you've actually... With consent, you can get that data, you can pre-approve a loan for solar, um, you know, basically if you've got their banking data. Um, so it opens up whole new possibilities around green lending and, and helping, you know, transition to a, a, a greener, um, building, a built environment.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah, you mentioned something there that, to me, I'd always wondered about with some of those, like, free government services where they just ask you to upload one bill, and it's just common sense that energy is an extremely seasonal purchase, and I was always a little bit unsure how they can actually really come back to you with analysis and insights based on just one bill.
Ross Sharman: Yeah. Well, I'll be the first person to say it wasn't perfect, um, but it was better than, you know, guessing. Um-
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah
Ross Sharman: ... it does, y- you know, y- the only way up till now to be able to get your current rates was by actually getting a view of your bill because energy retailers kind of make it up as they go along. The, um I shouldn't say that. But they, um... But obviously CDR, because I've got access to all those bills, I can look at all the rates, I've got all your usage information, so I can do a much more accurate assessment of your needs. Um, there's also a big movement away from gas to electricity. Um, there's incentives from the Victorian government to, uh, you know, get rid of your gas cooker and gas boiler and move to electricity. Um, it's a shame they didn't include gas into, um, CDR, um, so you might still have to upload your gas bill. Um, and yeah, that- that's, that's a compromise we have to live with because gas will die in the residential home. But, um, yeah, that's... There's a lot of money that needs to be invested to help with this electrification of homes, um, as well as decarbonization. So, you know, lending and energy crossover, as we've talked about.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm. So within the real estate community, what kinds of conversations are you having at Akuracy with building owners, facilities managers, and other real estate industry participants around the data and their energy purchasing decisions?
Ross Sharman: So at the moment, the CDR has just been really around residential and small business, um, so no real commercial applicability yet. But commercial solar, um, is really underserved at the moment. If you're a business owner and you've got, you know, a large roof space, um, having solar on there is, yeah, an extremely quick payback. Um, and so CDR has a great role to play there. Um, and that can be from the solar installer. Um, and so we work with solar installers, and solar installers work with property trusts, they work with consultants in the, in the property industry. Um, so our technology's used, you know, as part of that, um, assessment process. Um, so to, it's... I think, uh, I was, I was gonna bring out a use case that hasn't been developed yet, but I think, you know, it might be worth discussing. So if you think about... So one of the most underserved, um, sectors is rentals in Australia from, um, solar, and the reason being is, you know, landlords don't want to have to invest in something that they don't think they're gonna get a return from. Now, if you think about, you know, cashflow problems with, uh, energy bills, um, there's a big incentive to help your, you know, y- your le- your, um, renter, um, help pay those bills so they can pay the, um, the rent. But you can also s- increase rents because you've got now visibility on what those energy bills are and what they're actually saving. So I think, um, there's a big opportunity for the real estate industry to try and help facilitate solar onto, um, renters' homes and help the landlords and the renters.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. And also for, um, just in the, in the sales market, from a home ownership perspective-
Ross Sharman: Yeah
Jennifer Harrison: ... the lower the operating costs and running costs of the home, that should logically factor into how much you pay for that home in, in the first place. So I agree with you. I think, I think there are some great conversations still to be had in the residential property space, whether that's owner occupiers or, or landlords. And I suppose that brings me to, um, last question for you, Ross.
Adam Vidal: Uh-oh. I think she's frozen.
Ross Sharman: I think she's frozen. This is, this is a problem. He's gotta step in as host.
Adam Vidal: Oh, she's back.
Jennifer Harrison: I'm back. Sorry.
Ross Sharman: Hey, Jane.
Jennifer Harrison: My turn to have the internet glitch.
Ross Sharman: Sorry, I did get your last question, but I'll, um, repeat it.
Jennifer Harrison: Um, how important do you think is the role of data in achieving net zero?
Ross Sharman: It's hugely important. Um, in the US they've got something called the Inflation Reduction Act, and money cannot be distributed, um, until you show you've got a mechanism by which to measure improvements. So I show how much my energy usage has gone from here to here because I've ha- I've put this technology in place. So data's critical. Uh, and ongoing data, which CDR has come along at the perfect time for us.
Jennifer Harrison: Fantastic. Thank you, Ross. Neil Uh, our internet connection's both... both now failing. For people who don't know Greenr, what's your elevator pitch?
Neil McVeigh: Yeah, too easy. Um, look, yeah, Greenr, we're on a mission to get consumers and businesses to zero emissions, really to kind of address climate change. Um, so we are a technology company. We leverage CDR, um, data, uh, and other leading climate data to build products that make it really easy and rewarding for consumers and businesses to get to net zero. Um, on the consumer side, we have the Greenr app, which is effectively a directory of greener businesses in the palm of your hand, uh, where you can shop carbon neutral. Um, and then on the business side, we have Greenr for Business, uh, and that's, uh, an online tool that builds personalized pathways for businesses to reduce their emissions, uh, improve their bottom line al- along the way.
Jennifer Harrison: Fantastic. So how does the consumer data right fit into your solution? Can you tell us a little bit more in depth about the problems you're solving and how you're using techna- technology and the CDR in delivering your solutions?
Neil McVeigh: Yeah, so CDR is kind of core to what we do, uh, in the Greenr app today, and will, will certainly kind of fold into Greenr for Business in the future. Um, but again, kind of focusing on the, the consumer solution that, you know, we're trying to address, 60% of emissions, um, ultimately come from the, you know, purchasing decisions of consumers. Um, it's what we buy that ultimately influences, um, y- emissions around the world, whether it be shipping or, or farming, manufacturing. Um, and so w- if we want to influence lasting behavior change, get to zero, you know, with, uh, and really move the needle on this problem, we need an easy way to help people, uh, not only understand their individual carbon footprints, but really kind of take action on, on reducing those and reducing their emissions. Uh, and understanding one's carbon footprint is really kind of core to that. So that's where the CDR really come, kind of comes into, into to play. It allows us to ingest, um, a consumer's bank statement or credit card statement, um, and then with a data set we've built up with the University of Sydney, uh, we've built out emissions factors, which are essentially kind of the average footprint on a per dollar spend for anything you buy. So if we see that you've gone to, uh, the grocery store or you've ridden the bus or you've gone to watch a movie, whatever it might be, we can build up a, uh, uh, I suppose a carbon impact for each of those purchases, and then collectively those purchases come together to form your carbon footprint. And so that's really kind of core to what, what we do on the c- the consumer app side.
Jennifer Harrison: Net zero is a huge topic for the real estate industry as kind of, you know, the builders and custodians of the built environment. But the real estate industry is actually very fragmented, particularly in the residential space. There are lots of small businesses like suburban real estate agents, conveyancers, and mortgage brokers. How can Greenr help those small businesses to make an impact?
Neil McVeigh: Yeah, look, I, I think it's, it's probably twofold. So, um, first I might start with Greenr for Business, and really, you know, the direct emissions of many small businesses are quite similar. It's really kind of how we source our electricity, how efficient we are in using that electricity, uh, how we heat and cool our buildings, uh, and how we maybe move our, our kind of employees, our personnel around. And so Greenr for Business makes it really simple for kind of small and medium enterprises to address just those things. Um, we can help you switch to green energy. We can help you put solar on your roof. We can help you purchase an EV and finance it. Whatever it might be, whatever is kind of, um, the low-hanging fruit for your business, we've got the partnerships to, um, really kind of help you save money and address kind of the, the climate problem at the same time, which is a really compelling offer, I think, for these, for smaller businesses that just don't have the time to understand this or do the research to understand what is best for them. We just make it super easy and super rewarding. Uh, but recognizing that, um, you know, the, the real estate sector, um, you know, real estate agents and, and home lenders, whatever it might be, you know, ultimately, um, have these properties where they, they could, uh, certainly influence the carbon impact, or I suppose the carbon footprints of their, the consumers renting these properties or using their properties. We can help them, uh, again, switch to, to green energy in those properties. Uh, we've got, uh, relationships with telco, so we can move to carbon neutral, uh, internet and phone. Uh, we've got relationships with, with furniture and homeware companies. So, um, if you're, you're kitting out one of your investment properties or a property you manage, um, you know, moving to sustainable furniture, uh, carbon neutral furniture and homewares is, is a, a really important part of that equation, again, to, to get your emissions down to, to net zero. So we think b- you know, between the consumer app and offering that to, um, the, the people you work with as a, a property, uh, participant or getting the emissions of your own property company down, we really kind of, uh, tackle both sides.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm. So are you accessing both open banking and open energy data sets at Greenr?
Neil McVeigh: Today we're, we're just focused on the, on the open banking. So again, it's, it's really, uh, addressing, you know, coming back to, to the notion that, you know, what we buy really kind of dr- um, drives our, our carbon impact and helping people find carbon neutral options for everything they wanna buy. Uh, that's, that's where we're playing today. Um, on the Greenr for Business side, um, we're not leveraging the, the CDR yet. Again, it, it is really about those kind of direct emissions, the low-hanging fruit that the majority of businesses just aren't addressing 'cause they just don't know how. Um, in the future, you know, is there a world where we might look at open energy? Um, if, if insurance and superannuation and, you know, telco ever get off the ground, could we look at those? Absolutely. I think, you know, to Ross's earlier point, um, data really kind of underpins everything in this space. We need to set baselines. We need to be able to measure improvement, um, and if we don't know kind of, you know... If, if we can't measure any of these things, and we don't really know if we're getting better, we can't kind of demonstrate that improvement. We can't come out with better products. We can't make people feel good about, you know, taking legitimate action in this space, and I think, you know, that feel-good factor is so important for the vast majority of, of business owners and for consumers. They need to feel like they're part of the solution. So absolutely, we will look at other solutions in the future. Uh, today though, we are, you know, singularly focused on kind of the open banking just because it does address so much of what we're trying to do for our stakeholders.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm-hmm. And last question for you, Neil. So Adam from Basiq explained, um, the sponsor affiliate works and the function that Basiq as the ADR is, is, is fulfilling there. From your perspective, can you, could you quickly share with the audience why did you decide that that was the right access model for you?
Neil McVeigh: Yeah. Look, I, I think Adam kinda touched on some of the reasons that, you know, w- it was attractive for us. Um, when we were going through the process about a year ago, it was all very new to us. Uh, I think going through this, the sponsored affiliate route, we were really able to kinda lean on that partnership with Basiq and, you know, they were certainly kind of a trusted hand in, uh, in navigating that space. Um, kn- knowing that we wanted to work with Basiq for a while, uh, you know, going down kind of a route where we are sort of, um, taken under their wing with them as our sponsor, we are absolutely happy with. It, it certainly presented a quicker option to market for us. Now that wasn't at the expense of, um, you know, lessened security or, or, or, um, anything like that, but it just allowed us to, you know, do the self-assessment with a, a credible advisor. It was, we didn't need to, um, I suppose, outlay significant further money for an independent audit. You know, again, with Basiq kinda holding our hand, helping us, uh, get the right systems in place, bringing in an advisor just to, to help with the self-assessment really helped us get into market quickly. As a, as a smaller startup, you know, kinda speed to market is everything. Again, not at the expense of security or integrity, but I think it was a, a really valid pathway for us. Um, I think from memory, we're the probably the first, I think first business accredited under the sponsored affiliate model, so there's still some, um, you know, hoops to kinda go through understanding, understanding the space. But, um, yeah, it worked out really well for us, and we're, we're happy we went down that path.
Jennifer Harrison: Mm. Fantastic. And sorry, I know I did say that was the last question, but what I was gonna say, to anyone in the audience, if you would like to ask a question to the panel, please do use the Q&A facility. Um, I've got a couple of kind of supplementary questions. Um, might just stick with you for a minute, Neil, was, are you able to give us a little bit of a sneak peek as to what's coming up on the greener roadmap?
Neil McVeigh: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so look, greener, Greener for Business, we've been kind of, you know, running kind of a, a few closed pilots over the last few months, gearing up for a big launch in the, in the coming months. Um, and so really kind of taking all those learnings and, and putting it in there. Um, you know, and I guess in kind of the interest of, of transparency, we, we started quite broad with Greener for Business. We wanted to help everything sustainability. So get off plastic, you know, um, compost, um, y- your food, uh, become a B Corp, a lot of different things. And, you know, the learnings there really were for SMEs, you know, just make it easy. What's like the one or two key things I need to do today to really kinda move the needle on this problem, and then continuous, you know, discovery. I can kind of work on the long tail sustainability over the coming years, but how, which, what can I work on today? And so that's what we've been really kinda focused on these last few months and, and will be over the next few months, is, um, building up these personalized pathways that are just, um, super easy, one-click kind of changes to green power, whatever it might be w- that's particular, you know, for that, that, the industry that you're in or, or how advanced you are as a business. But again, just making it rewarding, making it simple. That's kind of core to what we do at Greener on the, on, on both sides for, for businesses and consumers. And so again, gearing up for a launch soon, um, and that's what, that's what we're focused on.
Jennifer Harrison: Thank you. Um, Ross, are you able to give us a little bit of a sneak peek as to what's coming up on Acuris' roadmap?
Ross Sharman: Sure. Two things. Um, firstly, we'll be, um, in market with our first retailer using an insights-only, um, comparison capability on their website. So that retailer isn't a data holder yet, um, and they don't need to be, and they will... But they don't wanna have to go through all the pain of being a recipient. So doing that insights-only comparison is something that's kind of new. Um, that's not super sexy, but what is more sexy is, um, our solar and battery, um, offering using CDR, um, will be publicly available through a couple of brands in the near future as well. So, um, watch this space. I might put a demo up, um, just to show people how it actually works 'cause it's kinda cool when you see your home with solar.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay.
Ross Sharman: But yeah, that's us.
Jennifer Harrison: Uh, Adam, um, same question to you on Basiq. Any, any sneak peeks you're able to give us as to what's coming up on, on Basiq's roadmap?
Adam Vidal: Yeah, sure. So I think the best way to share this is conversion for our customers is always top of mind. Um, we're at the intersection of a disruptive sort of way of processing and accessing data. So we've got data that's providing financial input, but also energy, which we've spoken about today obviously. But then every time there's a, um, there's a, a, an exchange of data, there's a movement of money. So once you put those two together, um, we wanna ensure that that conversion is fast and seamless and without any friction. But I've touched on earlier in my, um, sort of overview of us is identity is also at that crossroad as well. And so how can we speed up that whole conversion process with one consent, um, for our businesses is always top of mind. So we'll, we'll continue to enhance that, and as the payment ecosystem also adapts new payment capabilities, we'll be adding those in. Um, but also enabling software providers that either work in proptech, for an example, to be able to access open banking data for, for their businesses. That's always top of mind for us and our priorities coming forward.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay. Thank you. And Tim, same question to you. Is there anything you can highlight that's coming up from Envestnet Yodlee in, in the second half of the year?
Tim Poskitt: Yeah, thanks Jen. I think, um- Probably just following up a few of the comments, really looking closely at data quality and coverage, and a bit of point on conversion rate. As you move from, you know, digital data capture to open banking, getting the conversion rates up and working high, probably involved with all the over 130 data holders is really pivotal. Because I think when we can have a point where we're strongly advertising to the market, and in line with a, the comment that Matt, Matt made in, in the chat there around some of the metrics from open banking, some of the suc- success and the use case from open banking will only drive more adoption. So I think we're really spending a lot of time on that, and we're using some of the stats we've got from other markets as well for comparison. So we're looking at what stats we're seeing from the UK and what stats we're seeing from the US. Um, across the broader CDR regime, I mean, we're fully ahead, um, with all the trusted advisor and CDR insights. There, we've got a number of clients going live in the next couple of months around that as well, so that's a key focus for us. And then I suppose providing more configurability. So we haven't really touched on this that much but obviously under CDR and through the ACCC's consent flow. There is quite a lot of rigor in terms of what you can do through the full consent flow. It's quite, it's obviously very mandated by the ACCC. So we're really trying to provide more configurability to help organizations with their UI, when they're dropping UI, and when they're looking at adding more fields, reducing their consent flow, really just to help their onboarding process. And that can really solve across different use cases. So from pop tech to energy, to mortgages, to consumer lending, whatever that may be. And then finally, we're just working on some more integration with our sort of global partners that we work with from the New Zealand market through Asia into Singapore, and then through to Europe and South Africa through some single integration that we're working on, which is really exciting 'cause we've got a couple of clients actually to go live with us in three different markets for open banking globally. So that's really, um, something exciting that we should go live with in, um, in H2.
Jennifer Harrison: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining me for the panel today. As I said, this one was close to my heart. I've been wanting to do this one for quite a while. Uh, just to finish up now, um, thank you so much, Tim Poskitt, for being with us. For people who would like to know more about Envestnet Yodlee and connect with you personally, what's the best way for them to do that?
Tim Poskitt: Thanks, Jen. Uh, if you want to connect with me, probably LinkedIn's the best way, so Tim Poskitt on LinkedIn. And for Envestnet Yodlee, it's, um, yodlee.com.au. So yeah, best way to find us is there. Thanks Jen, for organizing.
Jennifer Harrison: Thank you, Tim. Adam, same question to you. What's the best way for people to find out more about Basiq and also to connect with you personally?
Adam Vidal: Yeah, sure. You can find out everything about us on our website, which is basik.io. Um, you can chat with our superstars there that will be able to answer any of your questions that you need. You can sign up to a dashboard and give it a go if you like. Um, very, very straightforward, um, and easy. Personally, uh, like Tim, LinkedIn is definitely the best place to connect with me, uh, which is Adam Bidell.
Jennifer Harrison: Lovely. Ross, same question to you. What's the best way for people to find out more about Akuracy and connect with you personally?
Ross Sharman: Um, high level stuff, the website akuracy.com. But yeah, just connect with me on LinkedIn, Ross Sharman, and, um, be happy to talk to you.
Jennifer Harrison: Okay. And Neil?
Neil McVeigh: Yeah, probably the same as the previous answers. LinkedIn's always a good one, so please reach out there, drop me a message. Um, and I'll just drop some links in the chat for anyone that's, you know, need to kind of check out Greener for Business or, or the app.
Adam Vidal: You got the QR code there, Neil.
Neil McVeigh: You can... Yeah, QR codes for Greener for Business. But if you're interested in the app, there's some links there for the, the Google and, uh, Apple stores for you.
Jennifer Harrison: Yeah. Lovely. Thank you so much. So this session, uh, has been recorded. It will be shared on the Stone & Chalk YouTube. We will put a post up on the Proptech Association Australia LinkedIn page and Instagram page with the link when the video recording is available. If you're not already following us on LinkedIn and Instagram, please do. It's Proptech Association Australia. And if you'd like any more information about the Proptech Association, our website is proptechassociation.com.au. You can sign up for the newsletter, you can find out information about becoming a member. And if you're very, very quick, because they are selling extremely fast, you can get a ticket to our amazing gala night of nights on July the 19th, which is the Proptech Awards, which are at the Fullerton Hotel in Sydney. Thank you so much to everyone for joining us, uh, and I look forward to seeing everyone soon.
